A Conversation with Kathy Katims

The lovely Kathy Katims has launched a new storytelling series, Saved by a Story, which she hosts at her home in Pacific Palisades. With each evening, 100% of the proceeds go to a nonprofit whose mission empowers voices that often go unheard. She is currently accepting submissions for the February 24th show (the theme is GREEN) and tickets are now on sale via the website. Read more in our interview below about how storytelling inspires her and the kinds of stories she is looking for!

---

Kathleen Katims is a candidate for an MFA in Creative Writing at Antioch University. She writes fiction and creative non-fiction. Her work has been published in Verdad Magazine, The Penman Review, Switchback and Lunch Ticket. She is working on a book called Second Acts, interviewing, researching and writing about people who had interesting journeys out of being stuck and moved in the direction of their dreams.

She is founder of Saved by a Story, a storytelling salon with a purpose–to share stories, build community, and to do social good in the world. She lives in Los Angeles, California with her awesome husband, two kids and big brown dog.

Karin: What inspired you to create Saved by a Story?

Kathy Katims: There were a couple of reasons as to why I wanted to bring people together to tell stories, build community and help others. At SBAS salon, 100% of the proceeds from admissions go to an organization that is helping underserved communities to tell their story.

One reason I created SBAS was that I was trying to think of ways to build community among writers. I am a writer, and it can be lonely. I thought coming together to share stories and working on a project with other people would be a rich experience.

Secondly, I have been feeling a mix of helplessness and outrage since November 2016. I was hoping such a simple thing as to listen to each other’s stories and to donate would be one way to foster peace, empathy and empowerment.

Lastly, I love reading, writing and listening to stories. So I thought to invite an eclectic group of people to come together to share stories on a theme would be so much fun. To me, there is nothing better. 

I love the name, “Saved by a Story.” What does that mean to you? Have you been ‘saved by story’?

I had a writing class many years ago and the teacher used to bring in great quotes to inspire writing. I looked for the exact quote now to see who said it, but I can’t find it. I remembered it as, “Sometimes a great story can save your life.”

I loved that quote. As a writer, it bolstered my feeling that writing and telling stories was important. 

But as a person, that quote really resonated for me too. There have been so many times when hearing or reading someone’s story has grounded me, lit the way, infused me with hope and helped me along my path. 

An example that comes to mind is when my first child was diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorder at two and a half. 

On the car ride back from the meeting with the developmental pediatrician, after I’d gotten the news, I also (probably no coincidence) got the flu. I went to bed on a Friday, but between the flu and the terrifying worries, I had a hard time getting out of bed that weekend. I worried would my son ever talk? Would he look me in the eyes? Would he go to school? Would I ever be able to connect with him? Would he fall in love? Get married? It felt like someone had blown a hole open in my chest.

I had a book on my nightstand from a friend titled, “Let Me Hear Your Voice,” by Catherine Maurice. In the night, at one of my darkest moments, I started to read. Maurice wrote about her journey learning that her son had autism, how she felt, what she did and how she found help for him.

Her story was a roadmap. It was a reflection of how I was feeling. It was insight into how my son might be feeling. It was hope and direction for me. 

Through her story I could see that with intervention, her son got more communicative and connected and was able to go to school and make friends and be out in the world. Through her story, I felt understood and comforted. I remember the book ends with the boy and his brother having a conversation about dinosaurs, something I didn’t know could be possible, that she hadn’t known would be possible at the beginning of the book. With intervention, this boy’s trajectory was an incredible upward spiral. It gave me the idea that my son’s story, our story, could be like that. 

That story literally got me out of bed, ignited me to get busy and infused me with hope and purpose. So maybe it didn’t save my life literally, but it patched me up, straightened me up and sent me back out int he world to embrace my life. 

How lovely that you’re opening up your home. Storytelling is such a personal, intimate sharing, and to have a space that supports that can only enhance the evening. Do you agree?

I do. It is special to be in a home. It’s different than a theater in that it creates more of a party atmosphere and encourages people to connect during the breaks. 

When the salon first started we had 50. Now we have a 150, so I have started to think about finding spaces outside of my home. I do plan to keep it intimate, but also want to factor in having more impact to raise money for non-profits. I am exploring spaces where we would still have a party atmosphere and are not as formal as a theater, but where we could maybe have 200 people gather. 

You are forwarding the proceeds to great causes. How did that idea come about? What kinds of organizations do you like to support?

I was inspired by a friend who has an art show in her home and often will take a percentage of what the show earns and donate it to a local nonprofit. She loves art and uses it to help others.

I love and believe in stories and writing, and thought I could use the art of storytelling to help others.

I also have been at so many fundraising events that are not fun. SBAS is a rich, soulful evening that also does good in the world. That felt like a winning combination.

I love to support organizations that are empowering the voices of people we don’t usually hear from. So far we have supported at-risk girls in Los Angeles to learn creative writing from professional women writers. We’ve supported a therapeutic preschool for kids with special needs who are struggling with delayed language and we’ve supported a non-profit that is helping incarcerated people to get their Bachelor’s degree. 

The GREEN event is supporting a wonderful non-profit, Film2Future, that is teaching the poorest high school kids in Los Angeles to express themselves by making films and helping them to gain access to jobs in the entertainment industry.

What kinds of stories are you interested in? Is the evening devoted to personal narrative or do you also include fiction, poetry, etc.?

The stories at SBAS are mostly personal narrative written for the evening’s theme, though I have included a poet and some music in each of the evenings. In all cases though, people are telling something true about their life. 

Many of the stories are up on the website www.savedbyastory.com if people want to hear samples. The stories when read are a maximum of ten minutes long (5 double space pages or less), but can be shorter.

I know that you currently have an open call for submissions for the February 24th show GREEN. What kinds of “takes” would excite you?

I try to pick themes that storytellers can come at from different perspectives. When I thought of GREEN, I thought those stories can include the idea of being new at something, getting the go ahead to do something, being jealous, or stories about conservation or gardens. I’d love to include an immigration story about a green card. I’d love also to be surprised by a perspective I hadn’t thought of. 

Are you looking for polished pieces, or do you work with the writers to help shape and craft the pieces?

Most people submit polished pieces though I have helped people shape stories that I loved but I felt needed another pass or two. I’ve done this especially when I wanted to make sure to include a person’s unique perspective in the evening. For example, a writer who was also an Afghanistan war veteran submitted a story for the ENOUGH salon. It was excellent and I really wanted to include that perspective, but his story just needed another pass to get closer to his experience and let us in a little more. He did two more passes on that story, and it turned out to be one of the most powerful stories in all of our evenings so far. 

Can you give people a sense of what the format of the evening is like?

There is a warming in period where you can get a drink and a bite for a half an hour. Then I welcome everybody. The nonprofit that we are supporting presents their organization for about 5-7 minutes.

There are eight stories on the theme with a 15-minute intermission. I ask writers to read their work out loud at home before they submit to make sure their story is 10 minutes or less. 

I also try to include some music in the evening. For GREEN we are lucky enough to have two wonderful musical acts performing.

How often will you be doing these evenings? Can you share any upcoming dates or themes?

This year we will be doing three to four events. The next event will be in late spring and the date will be announced at the salon and on the website.

The theme of the next event is ICE.

Given that you are also a writer, I’m wondering if we’ll get to hear some of your stories, too?

I got to tell a story at the FIRSTS salon and do hope to read another again soon. I was nervous, but it was exhilarating and I’d love to read again. It was also a rich experience to write to the theme.

The last salon I had 22 submissions and 8 spots so I only want to include my story if it works well with of all the other stories.

What do you hope people who attend Saved by a Story will come away with?

For people who are coming to listen, I hope they’ll enjoy the stories. I hope they laugh or are moved or empathize or connect to someone’s narrative. I hope they hear a story that broadens, delights and surprises them.

For readers/writers and storytellers, I hope that it is a rich, soulful experience to share their story. So many of the people who have told stories told me that they loved the experience.

I hope people will feel part of a community.

I hope too that these nonprofits that are doing such important work will be embraced by people at the salon and that their community is broadened as well. I hope people will support by donating, but also consider other ways they can bring their particular skills or resources to bear. 

Come to listen. Come to share. Come to help others. Just come.
 

To learn more, visit: www.savedbyastory.com

See all interviews

Publishing a Memoir Under a Pseudonym

When it comes to writing our personal stories, the question of exposure inevitably comes up. How honest are we willing to be on the page? How will others react to our stories?

This month I had the delightful opportunity to speak with MEG McGUIRE about her struggle with these very questions. Her memoir Blinded By Hope, recently published by She Writes Press, is a story about her journey as a mother through her son's bipolar illness. In addition to being a psychotherapist, Meg is an accomplished writer and teacher of memoir with five books already under her belt; she is someone whose work I admire very much. Given the deeply personal nature of this book, she chose to publish under a pseudonym (Meg McGuire). It was not an easy choice, but this was an important story for her to share; equally important was her commitment to honor and protect her son in the telling of it. 

Read our conversation below to learn more about Meg's process in making this big decision.

Karin: I remember talking with you about this book seven years ago, during the writing process. At the time you were not sure how the process would unfold given the deeply personal nature of your story for you and your family. Did you always intend on publishing it?

Meg McGuire: I think I always wanted to publish it, because I have already published five books and consider myself a writer. I felt like the material was really important, primarily because I could see how difficult it was for our family to get effective treatment for my son. He's bipolar and at that time had an active addiction. In terms of the mental health field, they either treated the mental illness or the addiction. There weren't any programs at that time treating dual diagnosis. So my experience was of enormous frustration trying to get him treatment. At the same time emotionally it was such a rollercoaster for me, dealing with the fallout from his illnesses. Writing was keeping me sane. It was enormously healing for me.

Three years ago I got an agent, Linda Langton, in New York. Linda was one of the agents on a panel at the International Women's Writing Guild in the summer institute. I pitched my book to her, and she was very excited about it because she had had a partner who was bipolar and understood the issues. What she had me do before we sent it out was create a blog. She felt like I needed to have a platform in the mental health and addiction community.

I worked pretty hard on that blog, so that when she did send the book out - and she sent it out to over 30 publishers - part of her query letter included talking about my platform and my other books. Nobody was interested in it. Part of it was that it was written by the mother. Several editors wrote back and said, “Why isn't her son writing the book,” which tremendously pissed me off, because I felt like it was my story, or certainly the family's story, and that was the viewpoint that I took.

I did ask my son if he would be interested in co-writing it with me and he said no. He also was not in any shape to be able to contribute to it. I didn't realize that then, because at that time I hadn't realized the extent of his addiction. He read the first 80 pages and did not like it at all. But he did make some corrections that were actually very helpful, because oftentimes I was looking at him through the lens of a psychotherapist and misunderstanding his behavior.

But he wasn't willing to provide feedback on the entire manuscript? 

No, he wasn't. He ended up in prison, six years ago now. I write about that in the prologue of the book. He was inside for almost four years. I sent him 40 pages of the book, and he said it was just too depressing for him to read. I imagine it was humiliating, particularly in the environment in which he was reading it.

What about the consequences for your son, say, in terms of employment? Was that a consideration?

That's a really good point. Thank you for bringing that up, because the lawyers who vetted the manuscript told me not to publish it until he was out of prison because they felt that would jeopardize his job prospects. That was when I was going to use my own name. The truth is, it doesn't matter what my name is. Anybody who comes out of prison has a horrible time getting a job, because on every application you do have to answer the question, “Have you ever committed a felony?” It has just been hell for him trying to get work. 

When did the idea of publishing under a pseudonym first arise?

Three years ago, around the time he got out of prison, I was going to pursue publishing even though it had been rejected by 31 established publishers. I had heard about She Writes Press, which is a partnership press, and I spoke with Brooke Warner who started it. She had been at Seal Press when I published an earlier book with them. She hadn't been my editor but she knew my name. I asked her if she would be willing to look at the manuscript, and she thought it was an important book. So I signed on with them. So when I made that decision, I talked to my son again and said, “Would you be willing to look at it now?” and he said, “No, I really I don't want to revisit that time in my life.” Since he hadn't read it, he didn't realize that I had used his sentencing hearing as a prologue; when he did discover that he was unhappy. So that's when we started to discuss my using a pseudonym.

Fast forward to last August, a year ago, the publicity arm of She Writes put the book out with my name on Facebook. I didn't know this was going to happen. I happened to be teaching on the East Coast, and the way I found out was, I got a very angry e-mail from my ex-husband who said basically, "How could you do this to our son? He's getting back on his feet. This can do nothing but hurt him." And then I got a second e-mail from him citing case law for invasion of privacy. So at that point I called up Brooke and said, “I need to pull the book, because I'm not sure how to proceed. I'm not sure whether I'm going to use a pseudonym or just pull the book completely.”

I met with my son and said, “We have three options here. One is, I pull the book completely. Two is, I publish it under a pseudonym, and three, we write an epilogue together.” And he said, “I'm not interested in writing an epilogue. I'm okay with the pseudonym.” So I said, “Okay, I'll pull the book now and then I'll make the decision.”

So last August I pulled the book, which was not a happy occurrence for She Writes, because they had already sent out all of the books for review. They had to recall 50 books. They were very kind to me. I have to say my experience with She Writes Press has been a pleasure. Both Brooke and Crystal Patriarche, who is the head of their publicity arm--which is called SparkPoint--said, “We understand this is a difficult decision. You always knew that this was going to be a difficult book. If you decide to come back and want to do it under a pseudonym, let us know, because we'd like to bring the book out.”

After I pulled the manuscript, I sent it to a friend who is a novel writer, and I asked her to look at it and see how I could tweak it to become a novel. She read it and said, “It's a memoir. You're either going to have to do it under a pseudonym or let it go.”

So I sat on it for a couple of months and re-contacted She Writes and said, “What will it take to publish it under the pseudonym?” And they said, “We already have it in in galley form, we just have to change your name.” We had to negotiate a whole new publicity package, so it took another six months for them to bring it out this June. It really was a hard decision because I can't use my author's platform. I have continued to write the blog, but I obviously can't put the book on the blog. In terms of publicity, they did a really nice job of getting it reviewed. Originally they said, “Oh we've got somebody from Santa Barbara News Press who wants to come out and interview you and bring a photographer along.” And I said, “I can't do that. What do you not understand about a pseudonym?”

What are your personal ethics when it comes to writing memoir? Obviously there's a legal dimension as well. 

My first question is always, “Whose story is this?” I felt like this was my story, the mother's story that doesn't get told. There are memoirs written by fathers about their child's addiction or mental illness but not by mothers. And the mother, for the most part, is the family member who has to deal with getting treatment for her child. People who are writing memoirs to embarrass family members are always wrong. But I always come back to, “Whose story is it?” If it's your story to tell, then you do have to be careful about other people's reputations. There are things that we can do. We used to just be able to change names and identifying characteristics, but that's really not enough anymore. If you can identify the person, the rule is absolute, meaning they could bring a suit against you. You do have greater latitude in writing about a public figure.

In terms of personal ethics, have you presented a responsible discussion of the other person's point of view? That gets left out a lot in memoir, and that's really something that we should all think about. If you are writing about living persons, what is your motivation? That question always has to be explored. That's why a lot of people will write their memoir and then decide at the end, “Well, I don't really want to publish this. Maybe my motivation wasn't as pure as I thought it was, maybe I really was trying to get back at someone.”

I have been asked this a lot in terms of my son, “Didn't you think this was going to hurt him?” The truth is, I didn't. Maybe that was near-sighted on my part. It could have been that I was so tied up with “What's the mother's story?” The other thing is, in writing that book I was trying to find an answer to how to treat his illness. So part of my motivation was, “Certainly I'll be able to figure this out.” Well I wasn't.

So would I do it again?

The writing of the book was tremendously healing for me, mainly because I had to come to terms with my own magical thinking, my own denial, of my own fantasy that, “Oh this time it will be different, oh this time it will be better, oh this can't possibly happen again.” I had to come to terms with that, and I think I do a fairly good job of talking about that in the book. My hope was that it would be helpful to other families, particularly to give them a language. Since there is so much stigma around mental illness and addiction, a lot of families don't talk about it and they just suffer in silence. What I have heard back from families who have walked this path is, “Oh thank God I'm not alone,” and, “Thank you for giving me language to what my whole family is experiencing.” So I feel good about that.

Once you made the decision to use a pseudonym, did it bring you closer to you son?

When I pulled the book, that certainly brought us closer. He was relieved. When I told them it was going to come out under a pseudonym, he said, “That's fine.” Whether it was really fine, I don't know. I feel like I did the most I could do and the best I could do to protect my son. That was my only concern. He has chosen not to read the book. My daughter read the book and was unhappy with me.

Why was she upset with you?

She felt like it would hurt his feelings. She's rather protective of him. 

What makes it so disturbing?

I think it's embarrassment; I mean, this is our family. There's a certain element of shame. She says she is a person who likes to be happy and she likes everybody else to be happy and she doesn't like confrontation. I would say she's the “light” part of the family; my son and I are the “dark” part of the family. So she didn't want her friends to know. It's kind of ridiculous, because all of our friends know what we've been through. But she is very private. So I tried very hard to leave her out of most of the book, and from the beginning she said, “I don't I don't want to be in your book.” So I only mentioned her twice. I was very careful about that.

Do you have any regrets? Or does the overriding call to get the story out in the world transcend any second thoughts?

It's something that I struggle with all the time. I really felt an overriding call to write this book in a way that I have not felt in writing my other books. A couple of people said to me, “Oh my God, after 31 rejections and then having to pull the book, why are you continuing to do this?” I just felt like it was important; I felt like it was an important piece for families who deal with dual diagnosis. I was reading the paper the other day; fifty percent of deaths right now are from addiction. Drug overdoses killed roughly 64,000 people in the United States last year. It's a worse epidemic than existed during the AIDS epidemic. Luckily my son is still alive. But, just think of all those thousands of families that are having to deal with some of these issues. So that's why I wrote the book. In terms of my daughter's anger, I knew that we'd get through it. She was able to express to me that she was unhappy with it. She also said to me, “I don't want my daughters reading it,” which surprises me, because her daughters went through quite a bit of my son's episodes.

What was the most challenging part for you in the actual writing of the book? 

The most difficult part was looking at myself, my investment, and how my rescue attempts were ultimately a failure. Also, coming to terms with the fact that I needed him to be well so that I could be well, and I really didn't get that until I wrote it.

That's a big revelation.

Yeah, really looking at myself and how addicted I was to his recovery. Also coming from an Irish Catholic addicted family, I didn't want him to repeat the same mistakes as my family. I denied the severity of the addiction for too long.

Did you have that revelation during the writing process?

Definitely. I had to experience that shift to be able to put it in the last chapter.

To be a writer is pretty remarkable.

Yeah, I think writing a memoir is. I've been a therapist for 32 years. I think writing a memoir is much harder than doing therapy. I don't mean doing therapy as a therapist; I mean being in therapy. I just think it's an extraordinary process, and it's a great gift to us.

To purchase the book, click here.

Read more about publishing under a pseudonym in these blog posts by Meg McGuire:

Unfortunate consequences: writing memoir about family members

Choosing to use a pseudonym for my memoir

A Conversation with Larry Dean Harris

As summer closes, we can find inspiration from the breathtaking boldness of the recent ECLIPSE to dive wholeheartedly into our creative work.

You might start by checking out Larry Dean Harris's STRONG WORDS storytelling series in Silver Lake, and perhaps throw your name into the hat. Read more about what he looks for in a story in our conversation below! 

---

LARRY DEAN HARRIS is a New York Outer Critics Circle Award nominated playwright living in Los Angeles. As a storyteller, he's performed in Sit N Spin at the Comedy Central Stage, Tongue & Groove at the Hotel Café, Spark Off Rose in Santa Monica and Write Club at the Bootleg Theatre. He recently teamed with singer-songwriter bestie Sally Fingerett to create Pen Pals, an evening of music and stories. Harris is the creator and co-curator of Strong Words, the long-running Silverlake/Atwater arts event. He proudly hails from Toledo, Ohio, where he created the long-running musical comedy revue “Oh, No! Not Toledo!”

Strong Words began in Silver Lake when three writers - all members of Body Builders Gym - came together to share their stories in a public forum. The salon-style event grew to include music and visual art fostering a spirit of community. Admission is always free, and programming is limited to 80 minutes to allow for open dialogue after the performance. After four successful years in Silver Lake, Strong Words moved to nearby Atwater Village in 2016 in a glorious new outdoor venue at the St. Francis Center. Strong Words was recently selected to open the 2018 season of the Los Angeles Public Library's “LA Made” series at the Mark Taper Auditorium.

Karin: Tell me about Strong Words and how it began...

Larry Dean Harris: About six years ago, three writers at the legendary Body Builders Gym in Silver Lake banded together to read their work aloud in front of friends and family. Something clicked, and Strong Words was born.

I love that three body builders had stories they were burning to share. What was the first story you shared on the stage that first night? 

I told two stories that night, but “Confessions of a Calvin Klein Underwear Model” was, by far, the favorite. Here in Silver Lake, we don't blush easily.

With so many other storytelling venues out there, do you have a sense of what makes Strong Words unique? 

Initially, it was our Silver Lake location. When I began as a storyteller, I was performing at Spark and Sit N Spin and having a ball. But we didn't have a show like that in our neighborhood. But now, I think it's our fearless audience. They embrace everything I throw at them with open ears. We opened our last show with a sound bath, and they loved it!

After producing Spark Off Rose for 13 years, it is clear to me that live storytelling and personal narrative is more than a trend, it's a bona fide movement. Why do you think people are drawn to it? What's this movement all about it? Why now?  

We live in a swipe-left/swipe-right world now of instant everything. I think a good storytelling show gives us a chance to breathe, to laugh and cry and absorb new ideas in real time.

What kinds of stories do you look for when putting together a show? 

I love the truth naked and unabashed. I love an economical story with lots of beats, laughs and a surprise or three. But I'm also a sucker for craft, when the writing is so delicious, the audience is swept away.

Do you work with the writers on editing their pieces or are the pieces submitted ready to perform?    

Occasionally, I will help a first-time storyteller with a few notes, like “Your story really doesn't get started until the third paragraph,” but otherwise I give free rein. I do insist on reading the stories in advance to program a well-balanced show with a good arc.

You say that your evenings grew to include music and visual art. In what way? 

Well, there are stories told with words, but there are also stories told with song and with images. So it seemed like an organic way to expand our community of artists. I have this amazing co-curator, Michael Hirabayashi, who has a discriminating eye for both art and photography. He was on a film shoot with a young actor, Joseph Lee, who was painting these fresh, super-compelling portraits on scraps of wood. Michael encouraged him to share his work at Strong Words, and that was his very first show. Now he's getting sizable commissions.

I love the “open dialogue” component after the performance. At Spark it was such an important piece of cultivating community - that idea of continuing the conversation that was started on stage. What have you noticed? 

I think a long show fatigues the audience. I try to keep our show tight - less than 80 minutes - because people do like to linger, have another glass of wine and just engage with like-minded individuals. It's my favorite part of the evening.

What do you do as your day job -- and how does storytelling and producing this event figure into your world? 

I'm a Mad Man. Storytelling is nothing new in the advertising world. I can spin a whole story in 60 seconds and still mention the product by name five times.

What are your dreams and aspirations for Strong Words and yourself as a creative artist and writer? 

Personally, I'm happy right here right now. I love that whenever I have a new story I don't have to wait. I have an audience ready to be rocked. But for Strong Words, I'd like to expand our reach. We're starting to do that, partnering with the Los Angeles Public Library. We're opening the 2018 LA MADE season playing the big room at the main branch downtown in February.

How do people go about submitting to you? Do you have specific guidelines?  

First, I insist they attend a Strong Words show, so they understand the dynamic. For stories, I have three simple rules: Must be TRUE. Must be YOU (your story told in the first person). Must be 1,350 words or less. I haven't met a story that couldn't benefit from some ruthless editing. Writers fight me on it, but afterward, they always thank me (and then grab a lock of my hair to make a voodoo doll).

To learn more about Larry Dean Harris, visit the Strong Words website.

See all interviews